Imagine sitting at a kitchen table with two lifelong friends having nonpartisan discussions about policy issues. One has a business and improv comedy background, and the other served 10 years in solitary confinement. There's no talk about politics – just safe, courteous, and surprisingly entertaining conversations about how Michigan's legislature and courts impact the people you care about and the community you live in. This is the pulse of "
The Drumbeat with Josie and Pete" podcast, launched in September by Ann Arbor-based hosts Josie Ann Lee and Pete Martel.
Lee, whose background includes extensive study at Second City in Chicago, says her aim with every episode is to foster a concept she calls "Most Important Person." The idea is that everybody is somebody's most important person in the world, and we all have a most important person in our world.
"If we just see through that lens a little bit, it's going to change the way we have conversations," Lee says. "I think about how we can have all of these conversations about policy with humanity first."
She adds, "There's always going to be a criminal justice debate. There's always going to be a health care debate. But we can change the tone of how we are having them because we see each other as people."
Martel shares similar sentiments. He also wants people who are not legislators to join in, and add to, policy conversations.
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Doug CoombePeter Martel.
"Learn from the conversation. Get into discussions about policy issues, and get into the habit of talking about policy issues, as opposed to all of the campaigning stuff that we see, where it's people at each other's throats," he says. "That's no way to have a good society."
So far, Lee and Martel — with the help of "guest drummers" – have tackled topics such as the
Second Look Legislation to re-evaluate lengthy prison sentences, or why people don't vote. In the near future, the duo will delve into the Freedom of Information Act, jury pool composition, and an educational walk-through on the difference between the justice system and the legal system.
They've received a lot of positive feedback on the podcast, especially on the episode where they discussed Second Look legislation. As "The Drumbeat" marches forward, they'd like it to become a resource for legislators from both sides. Lee says people are already offering to be guests on future episodes.
Martel plays a large role in curating the podcast's guest list. He's worked in various capacities in Michigan's criminal justice system. Currently, he's a program coordinator for the
American Friends Service Committee's Michigan Criminal Justice Program in Ypsilanti.
"Pete's a genius, and I don't call many people 'genius'," Lee says. "He knows different judges and legislators. Pete knows everybody, and if he doesn't know them, he knows how to get to them."
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Doug CoombeJosie Ann Lee.
Lee says the length "and great depth" of her and Martel's friendship is key to their project's success.
"We can be honest with each other and that really comes across in the podcast," she says.
They were both 5 years old when they became fast friends at school in the small village of Dryden in Lapeer County. Their 1992 high school graduating class consisted of 44 people. Lee took academics more seriously than Martel, who graduated with a 1.05 GPA.
Soon after, Martel was working as a welder, but says he was also "involved with a small group of friends in crimes." Following an arrest for his part in an armed robbery that involved a subsequent police shoot-out, he served over 14 years in jail. Ten of those years were served in solitary confinement following an escape attempt. He recalls realizing, soon after he got to prison, that he had really "screwed" his life up.
"I heard all of the people that care for me and support me and started trying to imagine how far back I needed to go to start over," he says. "I felt like all of the stuff that I was supposed to have read in high school, I should probably start reading. I got into legal research and philosophy along the way."
Four years before his release in 2008, Martel read a handwritten letter from Lee, who had kept in regular contact with him. She had experienced success in improv and business, and had a home and a loving partner in Ann Arbor. However, it was an election season and she didn't have many "political" friends. Her note to Martel shared her vision for opening a politically themed cafe called "Politico."
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Doug Coombe"The Drumbeat with Josie and Pete" podcast hosts Peter Martel and Josie Ann Lee.
"In the back of my brain, I always kept Josie's idea of a political cafe here in Ann Arbor, where people could come and talk about issues," Martel says. "It kind of made me feel like that could be like revolutionary France or something."
This summer he attended a talk that Lee gave at the University of Michigan, where she spoke about her life experiences (including the loss of her father) and her need to serve people.
Martel threw out the idea of starting a podcast shortly after.
"I'd always wanted to have a politically themed cafe, but I realized that would probably never work in today's environment. It would just become a place of anger and violence, perhaps right even in Ann Arbor," Lee says. "But when Pete was pitching the podcast to me, in my head, he said 'this is Politico, but in a podcast,' and that is all he needed to say to me."
Lee says that every episode of "The Drumbeat" is a personal learning experience. She hopes that listeners tuning into the podcast will feel the same.
"If you have an interest in the world around you, in the community that you want to build, or in the community you're building, this is a podcast for you," she says.
Jaishree Drepaul is a writer and editor based in Ann Arbor. She can be reached at jaishreeedit@gmail.com.
Photos by Doug Coombe.